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#1: Nakke Info Author: paul allen, Location: Singleton,N.S.W, Australia

Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 2:41 am
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Looking for info on the Nakke,I think I read somewhere, there maybe info in a 1965 Aeromodeller, not sure of the month or maybe nothing at all.
Any help much appreciated.
Paul Allen

#2: Author: WarrenL, Location: Anna Bay, Port Stephens NSW

Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 4:11 am
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You can get the plan from Peter White, according to Vicstunt.

Quote:

Neat looking design by Finnish flyer Juhani Kari. Took 2nd "64 World Champs. Published Aeromodeller 1/65 and M.A.N. 9/68.

Span 54½" Engine .35 - .40 Year 1964

Link

#3: Author: Dallas Hanna, Location: North Richmond, New South Wales, Australia

Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 5:30 am
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We have the plan here Paul. Pikey got a few printed in the last a couple of weeks. Do you want one?

John Tidey flew them way back and maybe it was Dave Simons as well.

HH

#4: Author: Dave Simons, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 7:12 am
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My favourite subject!!!!

I have built several - maybe 5 since the 60's - still have one hanging on the wall, soon to be refurbished and back into classic stunt competition.

IMO(strictly) - it is the best of the '60s .35 sized models- all of mine won many contests, including (I think) a place in junior stunt at our nats in about 1967 - Kari should have won the w/champs at the age of 16, but was a victim of politics.

There are at least 3 plan versions around (in Oz, at least). John Tideys scale up of the Aeromodeller 3 view (Johns drawing is very accurate, as a professional draughtsman) - and, he was the Nakke expert in the '60s - winning at least 1 nats, maybe), there is a redrawn version somewhere, which is not very good. And then, there is Kari's drawing- which is beautiful - he was an architecture student - signed by him and Bob Gialdini ( who, was a friend of Kari, it seems) - it shows reverse differential flaps. I think that I still have a copy somewhere. Gary Brett may still have the master.

In any event, Kari was the "wunderkind" of the stunt scene at the time, clearly destined for great things - however, he died under mysterious circumstances at the age of about 21, in about 1970. I've tried for about 35 years to discover the story, and even the Finnish stunt people I know don't seem to know much, or aren't talking. His family refuse to discuss the subject, perhaps understandably.

I think that a couple of his models are in a Finnish museum, somewhere, including his original kit T'Bird and a tricycle Nakke.

Ken has a picture of my last one on his website somewhere, perhaps he would post it?

Anyway, a stunning model, with a fascinating history.

#5: Author: Ken Dowell, Location: Gosford, NSW, Australia

Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 8:01 am
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My pleasure Dave

Nakke.jpg

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This example: Dave Simons - Merco 35 - 2000 Nationals

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#6: Author: charlie, Location: In darkest Western Australia

Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 9:10 am
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Dave Simons wrote:

My favourite subject!!!!

Kari should have won the w/champs at the age of 16, but was a victim of politics.

Dave, I don't know the story of Kari's W/C efforts except to hear that he was very good. Could you please explain your reference to politics? I have never had a Nakke, but once flew Peter White's example and I thought that it was brilliant. Of course I was not sure how much of that was the plane and how much was Peter's careful trimming and set up.

#7: Author: grodnop, Location: Scotland, UK

Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 10:32 am
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I had one of these built by Fraser Mackay. Very Very good with a ST46 in it for Classic. Much better than me.

Don't use the original Bellcrank/horn control rates on the plan or you will need a combat spaced handle which is what Fraser and I had to use, and we are both combat flyers so can handle something responsive.

The tips are fragile and I would suggest laminated balsa with some crossgrain in the middle.

Gordon

#8: Author: Big G, Location: West Midlands

Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 11:02 am
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I remember watching Kari fly at the 1965 Criterium in Liege, although I wasn't into stunt in those days. But Kevin Lindsey was going on about how Kari was "robbed" at a previous Champs - would this have been the 1962 World Champs at Kiev? How was he "robbed" - anyone know?

Wow - a mystery about his demise!! Fascinating!

G

#9: Author: Guest4,

Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 11:50 am
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Presumably, the 'robbing' revolves around (no puns intended) the nationality(ies) of the flier/judge(s) and the subjective nature of deciding the scores - i.e. not the absolute arbiter of the stopwatch, as in team race, or speed. Wink

Cheers,

Jez Wilkins.

#10: Author: paul allen, Location: Singleton,N.S.W, Australia

Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 2:38 pm
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Herb
I have a plan, I'am just not sure how accurate it is ? I think it came
from someone in the US, may have been Tom Dixon.
Its been one of those models on the to do list!

Dave
Yes, I had read something about the early death of the designer of the Nakke.

Thanks guy's, looks like it may be the 1 month/ 1965 Aeromodeller going by Warren's post.

Paul

#11: Author: WarrenL, Location: Anna Bay, Port Stephens NSW

Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 4:24 pm
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Everything is on the net...

Here's a link to a report on the 64 World Champs... it seems Kari was robbed by the weather gods.

#12: Author: Dave Simons, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 8:01 pm
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Paul,

I've hunted out 2 Nakke plans - John Tideys (from which I built my early models) and Kari's plan, dated August 1964. Either will serve to build an accurate model. I'd be a bit suspicious about a drawing from another source - there is at least one approximation around. Interesting comparing Johns drawing to the Kari original - they are very close - a testament to Johns draughting skills. The Kari plan is lettered in Finnish, which is educational, I guess.

Unfortunately, the Kari plan is virtually unreadable, but I know where the master is - not far from you!

There are several reports around about those w/champs. Reading between the lines (dangerous, I know) Kari was defeated by the judges, not Sirotkin. Classic cold war stuff. I think that w/champs was the reason the "drop the high/low score" rule was introduced - that we have recently (and stupidly, IMO) eliminated- judging is still a long way from perfect. Kari was renowned for being a fearless pilot in the worst wind imaginable.

As for his demise - I have absolutely no facts at all, but have heard some pretty wild speculation.

I won't discuss it on a forum, as groundless speculation could cause offence or distress. In any event it was a sad loss.

If you want to build a Nakke, I'm happy to pass on a couple of tips.

#13: Author: paul allen, Location: Singleton,N.S.W, Australia

Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 10:04 pm
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Dave
Yes the plan I have just does not appear to match the photo's
I have seen, the source close to me ?
Thanks
Paul

#14: Author: Dallas Hanna, Location: North Richmond, New South Wales, Australia

Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 11:12 pm
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grodnop wrote:

I had one of these built by Fraser Mackay. Very Very good with a ST46 in it for Classic. Much better than me.

Don't use the original Bellcrank/horn control rates on the plan or you will need a combat spaced handle which is what Fraser and I had to use, and we are both combat flyers so can handle something responsive.

The tips are fragile and I would suggest laminated balsa with some crossgrain in the middle.

Gordon

I just checked the plan I have which is all written in Finnish so maybe the same as the one Dave is talking about.

As we all know, Kari was firstly a T-bird II flyer. The Nakke without doubt is influenced in more ways than one by the T-Bird. The other influence is from the Grondal AMA Special. The wing section is around 1/8" shallower than the T-Bird and maybe 1/2" shorter in root chord. The tip rib has been taken from rib 12 of the T-Bird. The nose length is 1/4" shorter than the T-Bird and tail moment about 1/2" longer.

Now for the controls. Bellcrank and horns are all standard Veco T-Bird measurements except as mentioned previously, the differential horns are reversed in size. The bellcrank pushrod hole is 5/8" from the pivot with 3/4" flap and 1/2" elevator horns.

As a T-Bird II flyer mostly through the 60s, they are very easy to control with standard handle spacing of around 4 1/2" with the C.G on the main spar. No doubt this would be the same with the Nakke as it obviously shares the aerodynamics of the T-Bird. The originals used Veco 35. All my (15) T-Birds had MERCO 35 for power and didn't need any more for the generally 40 oz weight. I think Dave Simons as well as John Tidey used the same Merco 35 engines in their Nakkes and likewise pulled them around with ease.

Build as per plan Paul (except the differentials) and enjoy a great model.

HH

#15: Author: Dave Simons, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 12:10 am
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Nice synopsis Herb. Indeed I would also consider the Nakke to be a developed T bird. In fact, I usually refer to it as the "Ikea T'Bird" - OK wrong country, but close.

the Nakke basically addresses the (few) things I don't like about the T'Bird - longer moment, larger tail, simpler construction. It is a very simple model to build.

Your plan sounds like the original - check the date in the lower RH corner, and if it Has Gialdini's signature it came from the same source as mine - and, I'd like a copy too, since mine has faded.

Funnily enough, I have never had a Nakke that wasn't powered by a original orange head Merco!

#16: Author: Pikey, Location: Bowen Mountain, NSW Australia

Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 4:42 am
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Funny that Herb and I were discussing what to build next, he has a secret project and I was thinking of a 118% Grondal Nobler for a Rustler Merco 51.
But...... I am now very tempted by a Nakke especially as I happen to have a spare Merco35 sat waiting to be used.
Decisions, decisions"............maybe I will do both........ Or maybe neither.....
I just can't decide......I know, I will think too much then not do anything Wink

#17: Author: paul allen, Location: Singleton,N.S.W, Australia

Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 3:27 pm
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Dave/Herb
The Merco 35 must have been a powerful motor,as the
Nimrod 5 by Jim Mannall was powered by it and its a big model.
Paul

#18: Author: Dave Simons, Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 6:29 pm
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paul allen wrote:

Dave/Herb
The Merco 35 must have been a powerful motor,as the
Nimrod 5 by Jim Mannall was powered by it and its a big model.
Paul

It certainly was, the best and most powerful of the stunt 35s. It made the Fox and OS35-S seem pretty weak kneed by comparison.

If you reckon a Nimrod is big, the Merco would happily pull Kens Angelique around (and the one I had) - and we would consider that a 60 sized model these days!

Top quality materials, superb fits, good design - I still have 3, including my first, bought second hand in about 1964. Took a while to run-in though - about a year.

#19: Author: Ken Dowell, Location: Gosford, NSW, Australia

Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 7:06 pm
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Dave Simons wrote:

.... It made the Fox and OS35-S seem pretty weak kneed by comparison.

Following on from that, I've remembered a conversation in early 64 with Tony Farnan, the OS guy for Aust. This was when an Angelique/Merco 35 had just won the Nats.) He actually offered me an OS 35 S, just released, if I would care to use it. (Ever the shrewd businessman.)

I replied "Can you assure me it is equal to the Merco?" He said "Well, no, because I have no comparison figures to look at, but it should be." As it was Tony who actually taught me C/L 10-11 years earlier, I could understand his downcast look when I declined his offer.

As time was to show, it was not within a bull's roar of even being comparable, let alone equal. The OS is a very nice engine, but neither it nor any other 35 came close to the Merco. It should also be remembered of course that the Merco was 4-2-4, even in big models, and probably the first really dependable use of this style of performance in stunt circles in Aust.

Brian Horrocks judged that Nats after returning from England late 63, and commented he had never seen a better example of this 4-2-4 engine setting. He also noted that all three placegetters would have placed in a World Championship had we had the means to get to one.

The OS's etc before it were always constant wet two. Tony's own OS 29 in his famous Blackbird (Mk I T'bird) gave an exceptional Combat performance. He sometimes tied a streamer to it to slow it down. But, if it was just a smidgeon too rich, it fell out of the sky.

#20: Author: Dallas Hanna, Location: North Richmond, New South Wales, Australia

Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 3:59 am
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To add to Ken's view on the mighty Merco 35 engine, much of the power came from the large venturi, that being 0.312" or 5/16" for those who don't understand decimals. Wink

The earlier or should we say the original production Merco 35 had a shaft size of only 0.4375" with a slightly smaller gas passage. This shaft ran in a bronze bush. The head was a bright orange colour and the case can be identified by the front of the bearing housing being 1/16" smaller in diameter than the later ones from maybe around 1962. That is only a guess as to the year change. The ones I and many others used had the larger shaft diameter, that being 1/2", and run directly in the alloy case. The head was coloured a red rather than the orange by this time. My first one was purchased early in 1963.

Enough of this off topic rambling Confused

I noticed Grodnop mentioned the weak tip structure on the Nakke. The plan I have is as Dave mentioned, Kari's plan signed by Bob G. The tips are from a 3mm basic shape with 3mm top and bottom outline laminations. This makes the tips rather strong and are indeed stronger than the T-Bird II which was constructed from 3/32" material.

The single bellcrank mount may make us frown these days but hands up those of us who used that construction for many years without a failure.

One thing that needs changing is the spar design but so does the Veco T-Bird II. That way the leading edge skin doesn't have to take as much load.

HH

#21: Author: WarrenL, Location: Anna Bay, Port Stephens NSW

Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 3:10 pm
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Where can one get a hold of one of these Merco 35s? Are they rare as rocking horse poo?

#22: Author: Big G, Location: West Midlands

Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 3:20 pm
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This is worth a read:

http://www.iroquois.free-online.co.uk/merco/m35.htm

G

#23: Author: Dallas Hanna, Location: North Richmond, New South Wales, Australia

Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 6:00 pm
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WarrenL wrote:

Where can one get a hold of one of these Merco 35s? Are they rare as rocking horse poo?

They come up on fleabay quite regularly Warren. Some in either new or near new condition. For the good/near new ones expect to pay a bit although I got a barely run as new one from the UK last year for 43 quid.

HH

#24: Author: Pikey, Location: Bowen Mountain, NSW Australia

Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 6:51 pm
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And I got a really rough looking one for 14 quid Shocked

however on cleaning it up it appears to have done little work so yeehar Exclamation

better start cutting some ribs now Wink

#25: nakke info Author: bellcranker, Location: sunshine coast queensland

Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 6:50 am
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Just wondering Merco 35's,49's and 60's are all good stunt motors along with all these i also have a redhead Merco 29 which i have never used but i am guessing that they are as good as the others anybody got a report on them.
Colin

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#26: Author: Dallas Hanna, Location: North Richmond, New South Wales, Australia

Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 5:55 pm
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That model was quite good Col, just not as much grunt as the 35. That's the R/c case but same internals as the 35 (except bore!) I've got a Blackhead 29 R/C NIB. Should get rid of it as I'll never use it. Got it from a deceased estate sale in Sydney 10 years back.

HH

Last edited by Dallas Hanna on Mon May 09, 2011 10:41 pm; edited 1 time in total

#27: Author: bill smith, Location: leicester

Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 7:33 pm
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Attached is a photo of my Nakke built from a plan by Dave Roberts which I purchased a few years ago at our Nationals comp.

Nakke in Finnish is a Woodpecker so my model is yellow red and green as they are in the UK.

As far as I am aware Kari took his own life at a very early age which is a sad loss.

My Nakke flys very well and get an excellant engine run from an LA 46 using a RAM Propeller.

The wing is constucted by using the Blue Foam method which can be found at www.clapa.org

All the best.
Bill Smith

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#28: Author: Big G, Location: West Midlands

Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 2:20 am
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Very nice indeed, Bill.

G

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